The norm? It's certainly not the norm in Canada and the US. Who cares about the rest of the world? Why does the state have to step in? If you feel like it, please describe how some of those "tons" of Anglos have benefited.
why is it that you view canada and the u.s. as the centre of the universe? why do you advocate for lower standards? why don't you know anything about local or national history? if you feel like it, perhaps you could provide some account of it could possibly be that you know nothing of business, government, academia, or international trade or the benefits of having a second language in any of those fields.
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In order to "efficiently provide language skills", does not one need to be able to measure efficiency in some way in order to be able to determine how well the program works? That our system doesn't seem to be interested in doing this was a point I was trying to make. Are you a fascist?
are you somehow unaware of all the evaluation and review mechanisms inherent in the education system? tests? report cards? that sort of thing? how did they grade you in school?
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You referred to "language skills" in general (I assume) whereas I was clearly talking about French language skills. Your ability to obfuscate is impressive. You also used the phrases like "the state" and "efficiently provide" together without using a single laughter emoticon. This convinces me that you are indeed a fascist. Would I be correct in assuming that pathos is something that is not lost on you?
no, you were talking about measuring the success of elementary immersion programs based on graduation to secondary immersion. i was pointing out out what a meaningless indicator that was.
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 Posts: 5029 Location: Outer Lesbonia, Dale Of Yorricks
Posted: Mon May 11, 2009 8:16 pm Post subject:
Give it a rest. Neoconfuquetardisme doesn't have its hooks on policies about bilingualism. Why? b/c economics doesn't have an "economic" foundation. _________________ thimk gullibly, detract locally
The only problem with French Immersion is that parents tend to panic and pull their kids out of French Immersion programs too soon. It takes at least until grade six before kids acquire equivalency in French/English vocabulary. I would argue, too, that learning a second language in school improves a child's first language skills.
why is it that you view canada and the u.s. as the centre of the universe? why do you advocate for lower standards? why don't you know anything about local or national history? if you feel like it, perhaps you could provide some account of it could possibly be that you know nothing of business, government, academia, or international trade or the benefits of having a second language in any of those fields.
Because it's the centre of our universe silly.
Kierkegaard wrote:
are you somehow unaware of all the evaluation and review mechanisms inherent in the education system? tests? report cards? that sort of thing? how did they grade you in school?
Yes. Exactly. That's why I asked those specific questions. Duh!
Kierkegaard wrote:
no, you were talking about measuring the success of elementary immersion programs based on graduation to secondary immersion. i was pointing out out what a meaningless indicator that was.
No. No I was not.
Are you by any chance left handed or are you just a slave to logic?
Bilingualism in the federal workplace is a sound idea, but a French-test scandal rocking the public service raises beaucoup de questions about the official policy Hello and bonjour. Imagine my pride some weeks ago when, during an interview, I was able to draw upon my vast knowledge of French to faithfully record the following pithy remark.
"Ma petite fille," said the grandmother, retelling the story of the first time, as a wide-eyed child, she had seen an airplane in 1920, "le fin du monde approche." And so it ran in the newspaper. Did you spot the whopper? As many alert readers pointed out, it's "la fin du monde," not le.
Imagine what a dumb-derrière I felt like. Bad anglo dog. Bad.
A few years ago, one of my good mates, and a wonderful writer besides, was attempting to refer in a news story to "coureurs de bois," or runners of the woods. Instead, it came out "coeurs de bois." Uh-huh. Hearts of wood. We're still yukking about it. (Not only feet of clay, but yes, a heart of wood!) All of which to say is that Ottawa is possibly the phoniest bilingual city in Canada, maybe "toute le monde." (Or is it "tout" or "tous"? Feel free to chime in.) If you've lived in the capital for a spell, you will know someone like this: mid-career in the public service, seeking advancement, stone-cold anglo, sent for French-language training to gain a promotion.
Suddenly, it's eight hours of French every day, French TV and radio at home, reading franco newspapers, working on their sandpaper accents.
And stressed-out at exam time? You know it.
(Only in government, by the way, could a C result be higher than a B; and I've failed to mention the best grade, E, which is exemption. No word on D.) Anecdotally, at least, it is also common to hear that the retooled anglo will not use his newfound French much, once returned to the workplace.
(The truly bilingual, imagine!, would rather switch to English than listen to Joe Nepean butcher his way through a presentation in the other langue officielle.) Why does the public service torture itself like this? Bilingualism in the federal workplace is a sound idea. No quarrel there. It is a good idea for the country. But what jobs need to be bilingual, how do we set a standard and how do we help the employee get there? (This is rhetorical. There exists, I have glanced, a massive body of information on each question.) But what, pray tell, is the point of trying to teach French to a fiftyish anglo who has one eye on retirement? Lord, we have some stupid notions in this country.
You may have caught wind of the story reported in Saturday's Citizen about the official second-language exams that fell into the hands of a private school.
The school wasn't just "teaching to the test," as it were. It gave more than 100 public servants the actual exam to practise on. No wonder the "exemption" rate -- the highest possible score -- was more than 90 per cent, 10 times above average.
It is rather scary, too, that it took a keener student to tip off the Public Service Commission to a fraud perpetrated under its very nose. After a year-long investigation, it still doesn't know exactly what happened.
It is now going to cost $1 million to come up with new tests. A million bucks? Astounding. These are multiple-choice exams consisting of 65 questions. How hard can it be to craft a new set? An audit of the problem reported there are 61 departments and agencies that administer the second-language tests, 323 test centres and 1,200 accredited testers. Leaked exam? Seriously, how could it NOT happen? What do we know about the other practice tests used across Canada? Were they just like the actual exam too? These tests must be quietly floating around everywhere.
Is the public service, in fact, full of phoney-baloney bilingual people who faked their way through? To back up for a moment, I'm not even persuaded it is the federal government's responsibility to train unilingual workers in the other official language.
Why can't they learn on their own time, using their own money? With promotion, the financial gain accrues to them, does it not? Where is the benefit for the taxpayer? Canada is supposedly full of bilingual people. Let them step forward and fill the bilingual positions.
The feds, meanwhile, need to ask themselves to what degree, in their own shop, they've contributed to this mass fakery.
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This convinces me that you are indeed a fascist. Would I be correct in assuming that pathos is something that is not lost on you?
